Labour MP Leaves Former Tory Minister Speechless By Pointing Out Obvious Fact About Trans Ruling

A Labour MP left a former Conservative minister tripping over his words during a clash over trans rights last week.

After the Supreme Court ruling earlier this month that a woman is defined by biology – and not gender – questions have been raised over exactly how that will impact the trans community.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) said last week that trans women should not be “permitted to use the women’s facilities” in workplaces or public-facing services like shops and hospitals – and the same applies to trans men.

The watchdog did acknowledge that trans people still need access to public facilities, but is yet to explain how that would work in practice.

Meanwhile, the government has insisted trans women should use the men’s toilets, and trans men use the women’s toilets.

But, as backbencher Dawn Butler pointed out on Sky News last week, this decision does not exactly help boost women’s safety, despite the government’s promises.

She said: “Trans women, in my opinion, should of course, continue to use women’s bathrooms.”

Former chief secretary to the Treasury Simon Clarke began to protest, pointing out this went against the Supreme Court’s ruling, but the Labour MP cut in.

“I do not police people in public toilets,” Butler said. “I think that’s where we are getting to as a society, in policing what a woman looks like.

“I have a butch lesbian friend who gets hounded out of women’s toilets and it is heartbreaking to the point where we have to escort her into the women’s toilets because she’s going to be hounded out.”

She continued: “If trans men then have to use women’s toilets, that’s going to make women less safe, because how are you going to stop a man – a ‘normal’ man – going into a women’s toilet and saying, ‘I am a trans man.’”

“I don’t follow that logic,” the former MP – who lost his seat in July – said. “The point is, we’re saying that people who are biologically men shouldn’t be using the women’s toilets, that’s the point of this ruling.”

Butler reminded him: “A trans man is biologically a woman, so they would then have to use women’s toilets.”

There was a long pause, before Clarke, looking completely flabbergasted, said: “I.. I think this...”

“That’s the problem. That’s what concerns me!” Butler said.

The debate came days before senior Cabinet Office minister Pat McFadden told the BBC there would be no policing of public toilets.