Survivor 49's Sage Ahrens-Nichols on Being Labeled a ‘Flip-Flopper’ — and Why She Disagrees (Exclusive)

Sage Ahrens-Nichols had quite the journey on Survivor, but it wasn’t always understood by the people around her. Throughout her run on season 49, she found herself labeled a “flip-flopper” — a critique that followed her deep into the game and ultimately shaped how she was perceived at Final Tribal Council where she ended up receiving just one vote to win.

In her post-finale interview with Men's Journal, the Washington native, 30, exclusively reflects on the decisions that defined her game, the moments that earned her scrutiny from fellow players, and why she believes adaptability was the key to making it as far as she did.

Scroll down to read the full interview with Sage.

Men’s Journal: How are you feeling now that the season has aired and people have seen your full journey?

Sage Ahrens-Nichols: It’s two very different experiences. For me, I was less intrigued about this part of the journey, and I was more just intrigued about playing the game itself. When I was playing the game of Survivor, it did not click in my head that it was the same thing as what we see on TV. So the seeing it on TV part, I’m like, “Oh, it was,” which is like a duh, right? But internally it’s hard to make that connection. Sometimes I don’t know if that’s just based on where my interests or passions lie — and it’s not necessarily in the TV part — but yeah, it’s been weird.

Men’s Journal: Going into Final Tribal, how did you feel? Were you feeling confident? Whose votes did you feel like you had, and who did you feel like you had to convince?

Sage Ahrens-Nichols: Unfortunately, going into Tribal, I knew my odds were crap. Actually, after the Jawan [Pitts] blindside, I was really frustrated because Kristina [Mills] in the episode says something like, "Sage and Jawan had all the power." I’m like, no we didn’t — because literally nothing that I wanted to happen happened. I did not want it to be Nate [Moore]. Kristina and Alex [Moore] refuse to change it from Nate, and you can only push so much before it’s like, well, crap — like, what are you… what’s Sage up to? Should we flip it on her? I did not want it to be MC [Chukwujekwu]. Rizo [Velovic] did not convince us. Savannah [Louie] shows up — that changes everything. We don’t know: does she have something like Sol [Yi] had for [Season] 47 and gave to Rachel [LaMont]? We don’t know. And then, unfortunately, when Sophie [Segreti] put out Jawan’s name — Sophie also did that to me. She said, “Hey, would you feel comfortable writing Jawan’s name down?” I said to her face, “Never say never.” In my head, I’m like, I absolutely wouldn’t. But I also was like, I’m not going to tell him this because it would unnecessarily spook him. So when MC went and told him, I’m like, crap. Then I go to plead to Rizo — like, hey — actually I’m getting in the weeds here, sorry. But I did know it was not great odds. Anything I could do to increase my odds even 1 percent, I tried. There’s a lot behind the Steven [Ramm] vote in that regard. But in general, after Jawan got blindsided, I was like, I’m screwed. There’s no real chance for me here based on this group of people. So I’m just gonna get it to the end out of spite and try, but I knew my odds weren’t great.

Men’s Journal: There was a lot of talk about flip-flopping. Do you feel like your game was being understood in those moments?

Sage: It’s interesting that you use the word flip-flopping because they don’t show this in Tribal. Tribal was really brutal. The jury did not like me, and they wanted to make sure I knew that — which is why, in the end, when I’m like, “I don’t feel like I deserve this discomfort,” my default reaction isn’t defensiveness. It’s like, wait — have I done something here? I want to understand. Considering how they reacted to me during the entirety of Tribal — the eye rolls, arguing with everything — and then in contrast smiling and laughing with Sophi [Balerdi] and Savannah, I was like, I don’t feel like I deserve any discomfort because based on what just happened, it appears that I’ve extremely hurt you guys. And then for you to say, “No, Sage, that’s not true,” it’s just — again — I was like, no, now I feel gaslit.

The flip-flopping thing has been a frustrating term for my game, because the only time that I officially flip-flopped was with Steven, and everything else I didn’t. I did not want to vote with Rizo and Savannah, but the side that I was working with was not as cohesive and kept crumbling — like Kristina leaking the plans to Soph, where I’m like, why would you tell Soph that? She’s so tight with Rizo and Savannah. But everybody’s in a different position in the game and has a different perspective and read on things, and so there’s missteps. But the side that I was trying to work with kept crumbling to the point where I’m like, at the end of the day, I’m trying to get to the end. So if I have to jump ship this vote to just get through the vote, it’s not that I’m working with Savannah and Rizo — it’s that I have to do this in the best interest of my game. So I don’t understand how I’m considered flip-floppy or playing the middle. Everybody has to play the middle in terms of talking to everybody, but you also have to make it look like you are working with everybody so everyone trusts you. That’s inherent in the game. So I don’t know how I’m the exception to that.

Men’s Journal: Anything else we didn't see?

Sage: Something they didn’t show in Tribal is I talked about the concept in the military of cover versus concealment. Cover in a war zone is like a stone, a brick wall — you’re going to have significantly more protection of bullets hitting you behind a wall than a bush. A bush is concealment — that’s synonymous with camouflage. I did not have cover in this game. Cover looks like immunity necklaces, immunity idols, advantages — I didn’t have that. I would have preferred that. Trust me. I would much rather prefer more sturdy and reliable cover. I had to play a game of concealment, which means I had to go wherever I could go to hide behind a bush and make it through the vote. And when things are crumbling, I’m one person. Nate accused me of cannibalizing a seven-person alliance — I’m like, what’s the name of this alliance? I don’t understand. But I’m like, I’m one person. If that’s true — if that’s actually what happened — give me my bill, because you got a lot of power. But it is what it is.

Men’s Journal: I want to talk about your relationship with Savannah. You wanted her out for much of the game, and then toward the end we see her saying, “I’m not writing Sage’s name down.” You went on that reward together and seemed to bond. Talk to me about Savannah.

Sage: The biggest surprise watching everything back was how often Rizo and Savannah were willing to trust me again in the game. I thought me and that side were doing the whole courtesy thing — like we’re gonna say, “Oh yeah, we’re good,” to each other’s faces, but behind each other’s backs we’re scheming against each other, because I’ve tried to blindside you. I blindsided you once successfully with the Nate vote — even though I did not want it to be Nate, at least that vote. You guys have no reason to trust me, so it was a huge surprise to see them repeatedly trust me. But I think that’s because of my gameplay of trying to come off as insecure and aloof. It worked a little too well, where it’s like, “Oh, we can just appeal to Sage’s emotions and she’ll go wherever we want.” I’m like, okay, cool — it benefits me for you to think that.

But I said this in another interview: when it comes to Savannah, I’m a huge compartmentalizer, and Savannah — as well as Shannon [Fairweather] — were the only two people that those compartments started to get a little blurry. There’s an extra clip shown of Shannon and I hashing some things out. Unfortunately, people also fueled the fire. They’re like, “Oh yeah, Savannah was giving you looks, and she said this behind you,” like they were trying to make it personal. And for me, I was like, wait — that’s actually kind of hurtful. So I approached her and I was like, “Hey, can we just talk about this? Because I don’t know what’s going on.” And that conversation didn’t end up going well. But then there was a different conversation a couple of days later. This is all the personal lens — the personal lens is separate from the game lens. She was crying on the beach. I asked if she was comfortable if I sit with her, because I don’t know if I felt like a safe person for her at that time, but she said she was okay with it. I sat with her and she was talking. The main thing was her expressing how she was having a hard time connecting with people.

And I was like, let me take this moment — even if it jeopardizes my game, because it gives her fuel that she can use strategically — but I was like, let me share with her what my experience has been like with her on a personal level, relationship-building level. I said, “Savannah, when I came to you to explain that something you did hurt my feelings, it felt like you got really defensive. It felt like I wasn’t heard, and I walked away thinking I was the bad guy.” And that hurt when I thought about it more, because I was like, dang — I was actually just trying to resolve things, and instead I feel like there’s more tension now. She grabbed me and she said, “Sage, sometimes I tell my boyfriend this back at home, but you have to grab me and say, ‘Savannah, it’s not all about you.’ My default mode is to get defensive and make it about me. I need someone to literally grab me and say it’s not about you.” And I was like, I have so much respect for you in this moment to be able to name that, acknowledge it, and own it. For me, the personal tension — gone. The game side, though, I still have to go for you, because you are arguably such a huge threat from day one. So yeah, it’s complicated, but there’s nothing but respect. Accountability goes a long way with me.

Men’s Journal: What did you think of Kristina’s question at Final Tribal? That sparked a lot of debate.

Sage: Personally, as a viewer and a fan of the game, I don’t like those kinds of questions because I feel like that’s irrelevant to me. This is what I ran into with the jury: any human moment I had with people out there — if they’re opening up to me about something serious — that is 100 percent real with me, and in that moment I’m being a human with you. The game hat is entirely off. So as soon as that moment is over and the game hat is back on, I said this in my pregame with Mike Bloom: that’s going to be such a meaningful moment for me, but it will not factor into my gameplay. It’s not going to give you an advantage or a disadvantage. I’m a therapist, so I constantly have to compartmentalize. The things I talk about with folks are protected by HIPAA, so for me it felt like that — you’re opening up to me about something deep, personal, vulnerable. I’m not going to tell anybody about this. But it’s also not going to factor into my decision-making. I’m just holding space for you.

Unfortunately, because I was trying to be perceived as an emotional person and player, I think it worked too well that people thought, “Well, we can appeal to Sage’s emotions, and if I tell her this vulnerable thing, she’ll feel more entitled to protect me.” And when it didn’t work that way, I think people felt hurt. The narrative that wasn’t shown is that I was emotionally manipulative — and that hurts. That’s my weak spot, to call me that, because it’s important to me to never make somebody feel that way with me. And there’s only so much you can do to tell someone, “No, that was real for me, but I’m sorry it didn’t factor into my game.” All of that was 100% real. Had I known you would perceive it as me trying to be emotionally manipulative, I wouldn’t have had that moment with you — because that moment meant something to me personally, not strategically.

Men’s Journal: You're saying you could compartmentalize, but maybe some people couldn't, so that might be hard for them to understand.

Sage: The projection I experienced — especially at tribal and even after the game has been done — is like I feel like I’m in a corner where I’m damned if I do, damned if I don’t. If I participate in group events — which I don’t prefer in general — I can’t fake the energy of like, there’s an elephant in this room that we still haven’t addressed, and I’ve tried to address it, but you’ve all said you don’t want to. I can’t fake excitement to be here with you. I’m uncomfortable and I’m sad because I made you sad, and I want to talk about it. But if I don’t participate, it’s “Sage is depressed,” “Sage is bitter.” And I’m like, no — I’m actually thriving in life. I have a great ass life. I just don’t know what to do. Nothing I do is right, and that’s okay, but it is a frustrating spot to be in.

Men’s Journal: I want to do a couple “what ifs” here at the end. What if you won Final Four immunity?

Sage: Crap. With the Final Four we had, I would have most likely taken Soph and Rizo. What wasn’t shown throughout the game: a lot of people commented on how Soph didn’t do anything around camp. They were like, “All she does is sit in the hammock.” And I would tell people, “I know she’s not contributing to camp life, but don’t sleep on her strategically.” That is her strategic game. She’s sitting in a hammock gathering information quietly in the corner to take back to Rizo and Savannah. But people wouldn’t listen to me. Rizo — the jury constantly were rolling their eyes anytime he would do the idol play. So for me, based on the information I had at the time, I still didn’t think I had a shoe-in against either of them because Nate held a lot of power in the jury’s thoughts and opinions on the players left. And then if Savannah was on the jury and those two were left, I’m like, she’s a phenomenal talker. So I was like, no matter who I sit next to, I’m screwed. The odds are very slim — which is why the Steven vote… we don’t have time to get into it, but there’s so much context behind that vote that wasn’t shown that plays into this. My odds are shit no matter what. If I can get like 0.5 percent better odds, I’m going to do whatever I have to do. Unfortunately, the way the makeup happened, I was screwed no matter what.

Men’s Journal: Who would you have voted for if it wasn’t you in the Final Three?

Sage: That has changed. Originally, probably Soph, because during Final Tribal she was like, “Yeah, I climbed a tree,” and all of us were super impressed by that. And the whole time during tribal I was like, okay, it’s going to be a split vote — I’m going to have to choose between Savannah and Soph — so I was paying attention to everything they were saying so if I’m put in that position, I make a decision I feel really good about. But she didn’t climb a tree. What tree? She was in a bush. Like, what are you talking about? The only person I have a strong opinion about on a game move that was very incorrect is Soph. I think if she used Knowledge Is Power to take Rizo’s idol, vote him out, then go find the advantage — which I told her it was in the trees and I didn’t trust my gut — and then she wins immunity, I think that would have been enough to secure the win. But now watching everything back and knowing what I know now — if it was like Rizo, Savannah, and Soph — I probably would have voted Savannah just in spite of like, I told y’all. I want the badge of “told you so.” The next best thing if I can’t win is like, I freaking told you so. I don’t think she had as strong of a strategic game, but her defense was phenomenal, and I respect it. It got her to the end.

Men’s Journal: Are you going to watch Savannah and Rizo on Season 50?

Sage: I don’t know. I’m definitely intrigued, but it’s going to depend on how I’m feeling at that time. The downside of competing in the game and then seeing it air back is like, damn — the magic is kind of spoiled now. Now every reality television show I watch, the only thing I think is: what am I not seeing? What do I not know? What’s going on behind the scenes that’s not being aired? It’s not fun anymore. It’s not a spite thing — I just don’t know if I would enjoy it. I’m inclined to do things that I enjoy and not just do things for the sake of being in the know. I don’t need to know that. So we’ll see when the time comes.

Men’s Journal: Last question — if Survivor ever called you again, would you consider it?

Sage: I never say never to anything, right? If they were to call me right now, I would probably laugh in their face. There’s a lot there. For me, I just don’t know what I would get out of it. I’ve had conversations with Cedrek [McFadden] from [Season] 48 and he thinks similar to me — we just wanted to know what it was like. We’re fascinated by the behind-the-scenes stuff. Being an alternate was fascinating because I’m like, I’m getting a glimpse into behind the scenes — I feel like I’m getting a VIP experience here. But now I know. The magic is spoiled. And also — no offense to the game — a lot of it is just boring. You’re sitting around, and then when you’re working with people who don’t want to play in the same way as you, it just wasn’t as fun as I was hoping. That’s not a dig at the show. That’s just to say, for my personal experience, it didn’t appeal to me as much as getting to see the behind the scenes — like, oh interesting, that goes right there, okay, that’s where people sit. That part was more interesting. And now I know, so I’m like… what would I really get out of it?

Related: CBS Just Dropped the ‘Survivor 50’ Trailer — Teasing the Franchise’s Biggest Season Yet