What Elon Musk Told Don Lemon About Ketamine, Racism, and Trump
The contentious interview, which prompted Musk to cancel Lemon’s X contract, covered ketamine, hate speech, and much more.
Don Lemon’s big interview with Elon Musk came out on Monday, less than a week after Lemon announced that Musk was so unhappy with how it went that he killed Lemon’s X contract. The interview is the inaugural episode of Lemon’s new streaming, multi-platform talk show, and in his now cancelled deal with X, the platform would have promoted the show and hosted some exclusive content. Last week, Lemon suggested that Musk just didn’t like someone holding him accountable for all the controversial things he says. The former CNN host definitely tried to do that in the interview — though not always successfully — posing questions about Musk’s association with right-wing conspiracy theories, his ketamine use, and his views on racism and this year’s presidential election. (There was only one question about whether Tesla’s new roadster will have wings.) Below are some of the most contentious exchanges and the most notable things Musk said.
Musk said he uses ketamine to treat a “negative chemical state in my brain”— and that taking it was good for investors.
When asked about his reported drug use, Musk insisted he didn’t abuse any drugs, but did use ketamine, prescribed by “an actual, real doctor,” to treat “chemical tides” in his brain that resemble something like depression:
There are times when I have sort of a … negative chemical state in my brain, like depression I guess, or depression that’s not linked to any negative news, and ketamine is helpful for getting one out of the negative frame of mind.
Musk said he used “a small amount” of ketamine “once every other week or something like that.” He also said he doesn’t abuse ketamine, because that would limit his productivity:
If you use too much ketamine, you can’t really get work done. I have a lot of work, I’m typically putting in 16-hour days … so I don’t really have a situation where I can be not mentally acute for an extended period of time.
Lemon asked Musk about investors’ concerns about him using the drug, including the possibility he could lose his U.S. government security clearance. Musk responded that if anything, his ketamine use was good for business:
From a standpoint of Wall Street, what matters is execution. Are you building value for investors? Tesla is worth about as much as the rest of the car industry combined … so from an investor standpoint, if there is something I’m taking, I should keep taking it.
Must said that he believed his depression was “just genetic, basically” and that when it affects him, it feels “like a brain storm.” He also said that the reason he posted about ketamine on X was “because I thought maybe this is something that could help other people.”
Elon Musk on tweeting and ketamine use on #TheDonLemonShow episode 1.
— Don Lemon (@donlemon) March 18, 2024
Full interview: https://t.co/0fZh9smJUQ pic.twitter.com/rrijY4vyyi
He is ‘almost always’ sober while binge tweeting.
Lemon asked the billionaire if he is sober when he goes on his often late-night X sprees posting “controversial stuff.” Musk responded, “Almost always, yes.”
Trump didn’t ask Musk for money.
Musk said his recent March 3 meeting with Donald Trump, which the New York Times reported also included a few wealthy Republican donors, was happenstance. He told Lemon he was in Florida staying at a friend’s house, and Trump swung by for breakfast:
Let’s just say he did most of the talking. … There was nothing particularly groundbreaking or new. … President Trump likes to talk. And so, he talked. I don’t recall him saying anything that he hasn’t said publicly. And that was it, just a breakfast.
“I’m not paying his legal bills in any way, shape or form,” Musk said, “and he did not ask me for money.”
Musk said he won’t donate to any presidential candidates.
The billionaire insisted he would not contribute to any candidate’s campaign, though he told Lemon he might still endorse someone “in the final stretch” before Election Day. “I’ll voice my opinion. I think, I don’t want to put a thumb on the scale, monetarily, that is significant,” Musk said, later acknowledging that while he hasn’t made up his mind on who to support, he’s “leaning away from Biden.”
He said he doesn’t ‘subscribe to’ the racist Great Replacement Theory.
In a long contentious exchange, Lemon repeatedly pointed out how Musk’s X posts about undocumented immigration, which have often demonized migrants, have frequently aligned with the white nationalist “Great Replacement” conspiracy theory.
In November, Musk published and later deleted a tweet calling an antisemitic X post — which suggested Jews were encouraging migration from the developing world to diminish the power of white Christians — “the actual truth.” (The incident helped prompt another exodus of advertisers from the social media platform.) And Musk has repeatedly claimed that Biden is encouraging illegal immigration in order to create more Democratic votes.
Pressed by Lemon on the similarities with the Great Replacement Theory, Musk responded, “I don’t subscribe to that.” And he said, regarding his attacks on Biden’s immigration policy, that he was only calling attention to what he claimed was the “simple incentive” Democrats have to let in as many migrants as possible.
Musk downplayed the proliferation of hate speech on X, and said moderation was censorship.
Lemon also pressed Musk on how, according a recent study, X has become a flush with hate speech, and why the company has failed to take down those posts.
Musk rejected the validity of the study, commenting that such studies “count the number of posts but not count the number of views.” He said the company did nothing to promote hate speech on the platform, so regardless of how many hate speech posts there are, they don’t much matter since their audience is so small.
He also repeatedly said that X only takes down posts which violate laws, and to do anything more would violate his and the company’s commitment to free speech. Lemon said he thought the company should do more moderation and take down hate speech posts, which could inspire violence. “So, Don, you love censorship, is what you’re saying,” Musk responded, adding that “moderation is a propaganda word for censorship.”
He said it was time for the U.S. to move on from its history of racism.
In another long, contentious exchange, Lemon confronted Musk about his many comments demonizing corporate and university DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) programs, and without any supporting evidence. Musk argued back that he is only interested in calling attention to the harm such efforts could cause, and that he believes people should only be evaluated based on their “skills and character.”
Regarding the history and impact of racism and inequality which DEI programs seek to address, Musk said that the country needed to move on from racism. Lemon and Musk also went back and forth on the legacy of slavery in the U.S., which Musk suggested wasn’t relevant. “If you study history broadly, everyone was a slave,” Musk said. “We are all descended from slaves, all of us. It’s just a question of when.”
When commenting on U.S. history, Musk also said slavery “was not present in the North,” just in the south — which is not an accurate account of U.S. history.
“What future do we want?” Musk said at one point. “Is this something we want to make a constant part of our dialogue forever? Or do we want to move on and treat everyone as an individual?”
At the end of the exchange, Lemon cited his own personal experiences with racial discrimination and said it was “insulting” for anyone to suggest those experiences didn’t happen or weren’t relevant.
Musk told Lemon his questions weren’t ‘cogent.’
Again, there were multiple points throughout the interview where Musk was clearly exasperated with Lemon and his questions. Near the end — after Musk had noted that he soon had to leave and told Lemon to “choose your questions carefully” — Lemon pointed out that he seemed upset and asked him why. Musk replied, “You are upsetting me because the way you’re phrasing questions … is not cogent”.
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